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Snape-Sun
Last Friday was the deadline for RDR Books to Appeal the Harry Potter Lexicon case. When nothing appeared on the Justia website by Saturday, some thought the case was over forever.

But from the news today, it would seem they filed a Notice of Appeal last Thursday, and it took a few days for the paperwork to appear. So now this will go to Federal Appeals Court, also in New York. The only court higher is the Supreme Court.

I missed this first story last week - the Lexicon Website won a Library Award. Congratulations!
Muskegon Chronicle: Embattled Potter site wins library award
. . . the American Library Association named the Web site one of the nation's top 15 "Great Web Sites" for children last week. The Web site -- www.hp-lexicon.org -- earned a three-pencil rating as an "exceptional Web site" by The Association for Library Service to Children, a division of the American Library Association. The rating means the Web site is "appropriate" for elementary- and middle school-aged children, as well as parents, teachers and caregivers. The only group shut out from the rating was preschoolers.


Techdirt: Publisher Appeals Ruling Against Harry Potter Lexicon ~ from the good-for-RDR dept

Ars Technica: Accio Appeals Court ~ Harry Potter Lexicon Author Appeals Fair Use Loss (With Pie Chart of Doom Debate)

Slashdot: An Appeal in the Harry Potter Lexicon Case (w/Heated Debate in Comments)

Derek Bambauer in Info/Law: Like Voldemort Potter Lexicon Case Rises Again
Bambauer writes: "The Second Circuit should, hopefully, affirm, but with a clear opinion setting straight some of the issues related to derivative works and fair use. It’s great to have such capable counsel on both sides, improving our odds of a thoughtful decision."

Bambauer rants about the discussion on Slashdot (see above).
(Bambauer wrote) Rant: It’s a little frustrating to read the comments on the Slashdot post about the case. There’s just so much FUD out there about fair use. Even reading the relevant statute - 17 U.S.C. 107 - isn’t all that helpful, not just because its test is a non-exclusive four-factor totality of the circumstances test, but also because the 1976 Copyright Act was intended to codify, not supplant, the well-developed common law regarding fair use. When I teach Copyright, I tell the students that I think making predictions about what is or is not fair use (when you’re representing someone as counsel) is just about malpractice. It’s very hard for experienced attorneys to assess fair use (as the debate over the Lexicon case proves). For those in the Slashdot crowd who think it’s straightforward, or formulaic, I hope you don’t rely on those perceptions in making actual decisions about copyright. OK, Rant off.

Ray Beckerman: Harry Potter Lexicon Decision Appealed
*See Beckerman's earlier analysis: HERE (Thanks to Luna'sCeiling for that link).


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Comments

[info]saiphgrl wrote:
Nov. 12th, 2008 06:51 am (UTC)
Wow. Here we go again?
[info]rattlesnakeroot wrote:
Nov. 12th, 2008 07:27 am (UTC)

It ain't over till it's over. :)
(Anonymous) wrote:
Nov. 12th, 2008 11:13 am (UTC)
I wonder if they will take the Judge's advice/points that he gave last time, and change the book accordingly.

--Annie
[info]rattlesnakeroot wrote:
Nov. 12th, 2008 11:47 am (UTC)

We'll know more about the appeal when the actual court brief is filed.
[info]kamion wrote:
Nov. 12th, 2008 12:35 pm (UTC)
I hope they know what they are doing, don't think they can permit themselves to loose an other courtcase.
[info]clair_de_lalune wrote:
Nov. 12th, 2008 01:11 pm (UTC)
I didn't have a chance to read the document you posted. I'm curious about the appeal, since the court already essentially upheld the right of someone other than the creator to make a companion book/encyclopedia. Although, I have to agree that an encyclopedia that uses more quotes from the books, not fewer as the court wanted, would be more useful for academic purposes, such as for writing papers, etc.
[info]rattlesnakeroot wrote:
Nov. 12th, 2008 07:00 pm (UTC)

I'm looking forward to reading the actual legal filing explaining the grounds of appeal. It could be about the fact that the Judge seemed to aim the injunction just at the book manuscript (Document 22) that was put into evidence. And you are correct that the Judge's interpretation of Fair Use could certainly come into the Appeal.

Photobucket
[info]potionsmistres wrote:
Nov. 12th, 2008 01:22 pm (UTC)
Hmm...Wonder what the reaction is at Leaky...
[info]a_waffling wrote:
Nov. 12th, 2008 01:32 pm (UTC)
As to be expected: they don't think that RDR will succeed, and they try to be as nice as they usually are.
(no subject) - [info]rattlesnakeroot - Nov. 12th, 2008 06:52 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]aredwitch wrote:
Nov. 12th, 2008 03:31 pm (UTC)
Bwah-ha-ha!! Not like we didn't have an idea something like this would happen. *Biting lips to stop saying anything further*
[info]lunas_ceiling wrote:
Nov. 12th, 2008 05:29 pm (UTC)
Hey thanks for letting me know. I have been really busy with a few projects and a fund raiser but its dying down now....just in time evidently. I have to get myself caught up here I missed quite a lot.
[info]lunas_ceiling wrote:
Nov. 12th, 2008 06:37 pm (UTC)
Just to lighten the mood a bit I found this article last night. It seems that Warner Brothers is getting a taste of it's medicine as the city of Batman (Turkey) is suing over the use of the name Batman. Read all about it here Batman vs Batman.
(no subject) - [info]rattlesnakeroot - Nov. 12th, 2008 06:49 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]rattlesnakeroot - Nov. 12th, 2008 07:20 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]lunas_ceiling - Nov. 12th, 2008 08:13 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]rattlesnakeroot - Nov. 12th, 2008 10:54 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]rattlesnakeroot wrote:
Nov. 12th, 2008 07:59 pm (UTC)

I updated my post with some links to articles about the Appeal.

Also, Congratulations to the Lexicon Website for winning an award from the American Library Association last week!

http://www.mlive.com/chronicle/news/index.ssf/2008/11/embattled_potter_site_wins_lib.html
[info]rattlesnakeroot wrote:
Nov. 12th, 2008 11:21 pm (UTC)
Ars Technica Comments

David English wrote on Leaky that he was glad to see that someone aptly named "Sewer Urchin" has posted a picture of the "Pie Chart of Doom" in the comments on the Ars Technica Blog.

Of course the Pie Chart of Doom was never allowed in as evidence, so it is totally irrelevant and a moot point. It just doesn't matter, and it never really mattered except in the Fan Wars.

Someone else wrote an interesting comment explaining the Court's view of the Pie Chart:

Editor2008
@Sewer-Urchin -

The pretty but misleading pie chart you posted comes from a highly biased analysis prepared as a trial exhibit, for a fee, by a tutor at Ms. Rowling's Oxford alma mater. On one representative page containing approximately 250 words of the nearly 500-page Lexicon, all occurrences of the words "a," "about," "add," "all," "and," "at," "be," "beside," "better," "between," "bit," "but," "day," "did," "does," "down," "even," "for," "from," "get," "good," "got," "have," "he," "her," "hour," "how," "I," "in," "into," "is," "it," "kept," "kind," "know," "like," "many," "might," "next," "no," "nobody," "not," "of," "only," "or," "out," "part," "said," "say," "she," "small," "still," "that," "the," "then," "there," "they," "their," "this," "those" "to," "very," "was," "what," "when," "where," "with," and "worst," among many other common and innocuous words, were deemed "Rowling material," even though they were not in the context of phrases that appeared in the Harry Potter books, presumably because J.K. Rowling used each one of those words somewhere in her three-million-word epic. As an impartial observer in the courtroom during this testimony, I recall giggles from the gallery over this quasi-legal chicanery. The judge didn't seem to give it much credence, and we shouldn't either. The moral of the story? Don't believe everything a lawyer tells you.





[info]saiphgrl wrote:
Nov. 12th, 2008 11:58 pm (UTC)
Re: Ars Technica Comments
You know, I've been reading this other book that includes most of those words, too! And it was written before HP!
Seriously, even if he did use the words that she created, that's no proof of anything. He could be making commentary on them.

And lol to "facetious remarks". I had forgotten about that.
[info]lunas_ceiling wrote:
Nov. 13th, 2008 01:38 am (UTC)
Re: Ars Technica Comments
I wonder who Editor2008 is, this must be the underlying analysis for Johnson's testimony that we never saw. This is why I never understood the drama with the pie chart to begin with, who accepts a chart as factual without any evidence of the underlying methodology? Bottom line though was completely a waste of trees. SVA was willing to change the book but there was no compromising with plaintiffs. Looks like that is probably still the case.
Re: Ars Technica Comments - [info]rattlesnakeroot - Nov. 13th, 2008 02:55 am (UTC) Expand
[info]exhpfan wrote:
Nov. 13th, 2008 04:38 am (UTC)
Re: Ars Technica Comments
This is funny. I can see where such a revelation during a trial would bring some giggles, even in a very strict environment like a Federal Courtroom.

Edited at 2008-11-13 04:39 am (UTC)
Re: Ars Technica Comments - [info]rattlesnakeroot - Nov. 13th, 2008 05:18 am (UTC) Expand
[info]ms_arithmancer wrote:
Nov. 13th, 2008 12:39 am (UTC)
Yay for the Lexicon award! In Hagridesque terms...it's dead useful. Though perhaps not to preliterate children. ;)
[info]rattlesnakeroot wrote:
Nov. 13th, 2008 02:58 am (UTC)

Yes, the Preschoolers aren't usually on the Internets searching for the Latin roots of spell names. *lol*
[info]rattlesnakeroot wrote:
Nov. 13th, 2008 05:51 am (UTC)
Slashdot and Bambauer
OK, I updated the original post again. There is a heated discussion about Fair Use on the Slashdot article, and it caused Derek Bambauer on Info/Law to write a rant about how people seemingly oversimplify the Copyright Laws when they debate this case. (I'm not sure which side he is on sometimes or which side he thinks has the wrong argument).

In an earlier post, Bambauer had written that the Judge should have found the Lexicon to be a derivative work. He wrote that he was hoping for an appeal so that could be clarified, and now he has his wish.

Edited at 2008-11-13 05:57 am (UTC)
[info]lunas_ceiling wrote:
Nov. 13th, 2008 07:15 am (UTC)
Re: Slashdot and Bambauer
Bambauer appears to have been having some discussions with Beckerman and it is in the Beckerman analysis where I can see the outline for appeal. Beckerman and Bambauer seem to agree on the problems with the verdict yet still come to differing conclusions. I also found it interesting that Bambauer's rant seems to make the case that there is no formulaic answers in Fair Use and the law is so muddy no attorney can advise without risking malpractice.

I think some of Bambauer's earlier analysis was much more pro plaintiff that it appears to be now. I can see why you would say that you're not sure what side he is on sometimes but I think it may be because he is much more ambiguous now than in his previous posts. He always gave himself some wiggle room and some of his wiggle room came from finding the book derivative rather than transformative. Ultimately I think he would like to see Patterson's derivative reasoning affirmed, that's my guess anyway.
Re: Slashdot and Bambauer - [info]rattlesnakeroot - Nov. 13th, 2008 07:41 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Slashdot and Bambauer - [info]rattlesnakeroot - Nov. 13th, 2008 07:50 am (UTC) Expand
[info]saiphgrl wrote:
Nov. 13th, 2008 04:35 pm (UTC)
Re: Slashdot and Bambauer
I wish I had the time to read the entire discussion on Slashdot because there are some good comments there. I especially liked this one from cpt kangarooski:

"Copyright does not include a right to profit. Imagine the absurd results that would occur if it did: A scathing review of the latest book or movie that caused it to be a big flop would constitute copyright infringement! Even if it didn't copy so much as a word. Likewise, a rival author who wrote a series of dreadful books about vampires which drew away the audience for Harry Potter could be accused of infringing on the basis that her (bad) original works were undercutting Rowling's profits, despite a total lack of copying anything."

I think the first sentence is pretty key. People seem to forget this.
Re: Slashdot and Bambauer - [info]clair_de_lalune - Nov. 13th, 2008 05:53 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Slashdot and Bambauer - [info]saiphgrl - Nov. 13th, 2008 05:55 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]lunas_ceiling wrote:
Nov. 13th, 2008 08:41 am (UTC)
I also thought it was significant that Beckerman focused in on the quality issue which is the underlying flaw in Seinfeld. Patterson rejected SAT but seems to use the same analysis that Posner criticizes. Posner noted that such analysis puts judges in the position of being book critics. Bambauer thought initially after the verdict that the case teed up all the issues for appeal which wasn't all that clear to me until I read Beckerman.
[info]rattlesnakeroot wrote:
Nov. 13th, 2008 09:00 am (UTC)

Great points, as usual. :)

I have argued all along that "quality" in WB's opinion - or even the Judge's opinion - should have nothing to do with this. That is totally subjective, along with "scholarly."

And for one thing, there are plenty of bad Harry Potter books already written, and the Lexicon is high above them. The ones that JKR liked the most were not encyclopedias anyway, and they were not complete at all.
[info]teaqueenie wrote:
Nov. 13th, 2008 01:08 pm (UTC)
AAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHH!
Just when I thought it was safe to go back to the internet! Is this a bona fide appeal or just a notice to preserve the right to appeal. I recall reading one lawyerly type who said that they expected a notice filed or the right to appeal would expire. So, does anyone know if this is really going forward?
*crossing fingers and whispering* "Please be just a formality."
[info]rattlesnakeroot wrote:
Nov. 13th, 2008 02:15 pm (UTC)
Re: AAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHH!

Well . . . I don't want to distress you further, but it's both a formality and a beginning of an Appeal.

First they post the Notice that they are going to do it, then they file the briefs explaining the case to the Appeals Court.

So probably things are going to happen, but we just don't know when. Sorry . . . *tiptoes away*
Re: AAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHH! - [info]rattlesnakeroot - Nov. 13th, 2008 03:25 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: AAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHH! - [info]lunas_ceiling - Nov. 13th, 2008 04:48 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: AAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHH! - [info]clair_de_lalune - Nov. 13th, 2008 06:01 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: AAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHH! - [info]saiphgrl - Nov. 13th, 2008 04:35 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: AAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHHH! - [info]rattlesnakeroot - Nov. 13th, 2008 10:16 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]aredwitch wrote:
Nov. 14th, 2008 04:03 pm (UTC)
I thought the original ruling meant that RDR Books could go ahead and publish without Rowling's permission as long as certain changes were made to the text. I do agree that it was probably a bad idea to put so much of FB and QA in the encyclopedia, still I guess the law group wants something written into law to clarify some of the issues that came up in the case. Poor Steve, he will be pilloried online and he had nothing to do with this.
[info]rattlesnakeroot wrote:
Nov. 14th, 2008 05:17 pm (UTC)

Yes, Stanford wants some case law to be made at the Appeals Court level, or even the Supreme Court. What they eventually want is some "bright line" rule for Fair Use beyond the fuzzy guidelines they have now. Whether this case can get them there is questionable.

Folks who are writing that this was Steve's decision, or that he is somehow in control of the litigation are just wrong, since he's not a defendent anyway.
Confused - [info]teaqueenie - Nov. 15th, 2008 02:37 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Confused - [info]rattlesnakeroot - Nov. 15th, 2008 07:47 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Confused - (Anonymous) - Nov. 15th, 2008 09:27 pm (UTC) Expand
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Re: Confused - (Anonymous) - Nov. 16th, 2008 08:25 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Confused - [info]saiphgrl - Nov. 16th, 2008 03:32 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Confused - [info]rattlesnakeroot - Nov. 16th, 2008 03:49 am (UTC) Expand
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Re: Confused - [info]rattlesnakeroot - Nov. 16th, 2008 08:44 am (UTC) Expand
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Re: Confused - [info]rattlesnakeroot - Nov. 16th, 2008 11:11 am (UTC) Expand
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Re: Confused - [info]saiphgrl - Nov. 16th, 2008 04:07 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Confused - [info]rattlesnakeroot - Nov. 16th, 2008 09:07 pm (UTC) Expand
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Re: Confused - (Anonymous) - Nov. 17th, 2008 04:52 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Confused - [info]rattlesnakeroot - Nov. 18th, 2008 05:44 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Confused - (Anonymous) - Nov. 15th, 2008 09:51 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Confused - [info]lunas_ceiling - Nov. 16th, 2008 07:30 am (UTC) Expand
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Re: Confused - [info]rattlesnakeroot - Nov. 16th, 2008 08:59 am (UTC) Expand
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Re: Confused - [info]rattlesnakeroot - Nov. 18th, 2008 03:24 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Confused - [info]saiphgrl - Nov. 18th, 2008 03:30 pm (UTC) Expand

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